Davos 2024: Live from the Deep Sea

Samuel Jacobs: Hi, good afternoon. Welcome to the final frontier. Today, I'm told we have more accurate maps of the surface of Mars than we do the bottom of the sea. Technology promises new ways to exploit the oceans as well at greater depths, as well as with greater risk.

Today, we're gonna talk about – sure, join me please, I'll introduce you – we'll talk about the immense potential of scientific innovation and some of the risks and opportunities that are presented along with it.

My name is Sam Jacobs; I am editor-in-chief of Time. I'm thrilled to be here with you with a number of esteemed experts on the ocean, as well as a number of people who will join later throughout this conversation. We are particularly excited because our plan is to do a live interview from 7,000 kilometres away but not just 7,000 kilometres away, 300 metres below the surface of the sea while I will be talking to Diva Amon, the science advisor at the Benioff Ocean Science Laboratory, at UC Santa Barbara, as well as Mattie Rodrigue, the science programme director of OceanX.

We'll be joined later by Ray Dalio, the founder and chief investment mentor at Bridgewater Associates but first, I'd like to introduce you to the three members of our panel today. Starting to my left Jennifer Morris, the chief executive officer of Nature Conservancy. Then, Mr. Andrew Forrest, chairman and founder of Fortescue in Australia, and Dr. David Obura, the director of coastal oceans research and development in the Indian Ocean.

So, with that introduction, I'm going to get into it with our panellists, then Mr. Ray Dalio will join us and then we will talk to someone 300 metres below the surface of the sea. Thank you very much for being here. Dr. Obura, I'd like to start with you. Can you set the scene for us of what's happening? How much do we know about the ocean today?

David Obura: Thanks, Sam and for being invited in and having this podium. You have already taken my first line that we know more about the surface of Mars than we do about the deep sea. That's the standard answer we have. But the deep ocean is very hard to explore; sciences are very difficult to access there.

We've only described about 10% of the species in the deep sea as far as we know because of course, we don't know how many species there are. But having said that, it's incredible how much knowledge has been accumulated over hundreds of years by ships crossing the ocean, dropping grabs down and picking things up and the ingenuity of science in discovery is really phenomenal.

Life came from the ocean, it's our lungs of the planet. The buffer in the ocean really determines the chemistry of ourselves and it manages our climate. And we really need to understand the sensitivity and the wonder of the ocean in order to really deal with the challenges that we're facing with climate change and with trying to feed and sustain our planet in the coming years.

Samuel Jacobs: One of the things we discussed prior to the panel is the difference in knowledge when it comes to different parts of the oceans. Can you tell us about that today? Where are the inequities when it comes to information?

David Obura: There's a lot of disparities amongst regions of how much we know about the ocean, humans are backyard species, we invest in our space and where we own, we need to get to know it. There has been a lot of exploration to remote regions. But my region or where the submersible is now on the ship in the West Indian Ocean is really one of the poorest known oceans in the world.

The countries surrounding the ocean don't have much money to invest in the exploration. And so exploration of this sort is really critical to really improving our knowledge because a lack of knowledge and disparities in knowledge really affects how well we make decisions about what we should be doing. And the more we know of, the more even that knowledge is around the world, the better our decisions about what we should do where and why – it's very important for conservation, it's very important for climate change.

The last thing I'll mention is that the ownership of knowledge is a really important thing and the representation of people in knowledge systems is a critical thing for making decisions. And I think Dr. Amon, who we'll hear from is a perfect example of that, how we're really broadening the representation of scientists from around the world. And really getting more people involved in collecting information. And making decisions on the basis of that knowledge.

Samuel Jacobs: Dr. Forrest, I robbed you of a degree earlier, so I apologise for that. Why are so many billionaires more interested in what's above us than what's beneath us?

Andrew Forrest: I just don't think they are aware of the criticality of the oceans. And look, I'm a student of Stephen Hawking. I'm completely enraptured with space. But there is nothing more important than our own planet. I think it's asinine to say when we destroy Earth, we should move to another planet. I just think that's the most stupid thing I've ever heard. It's a bit like saying that the best intelligence went with AI and forget that it's humans who designed AI.

So, I think if you look at the very big picture of life, then you appreciate that 98% of the livable space in the world isn't this thin veneer of atmosphere above the terrestrial environment? It's the oceans and that the command is, you were saying, doctor, of the environment is just so important from the oceans. And the oceans have been our biggest, biggest frontline major battle winner against climate change but even that has been overwhelmed.

And I want to say that the great explorers like Jacques Cousteau, like this great man who's looking after us here, Ray Dalio, that they they have a really pristine, beautiful ocean to explore and that the industrial world doesn't destroy it through just lack of knowledge. And so, my incentive was to send myself back to university for four years, midlife and I just can't think of anything more important that I've actually done.

Samuel Jacobs: Speaking of the important work that you've done, you and I met yesterday about – one of the topics of conversation was a sort of intervention and arrival that you made at COP a few months ago. Can you tell us about that experience? And what sort of story you were trying to tell there?

Andrew Forrest: Well, just saying that it is the industrial world – it's the industrial polluting world – which we must immediately turn to with a simple question: if you burn fossil fuel, we all do in this room, then, we should be asking industrialists, when are you going to stop burning fossil fuel? Simple question. When are you going to stop burning fossil fuels so that everyone in this room isn't forced to burn fossil fuel to live their lives?

And if you're a fossil fuel producer, then the question is, when are you going to stop forcing your customers to burn fossil fuel i.e. you market yourself as an energy company then produce energy, give people the choice, green or dirty and you know which one they're going to choose.

So, to really prove that point we sailed the world's first green hydrogen ship into COP28 and it got blocked at the 12 mile nautical border because it's a pollution free fuel. And it highlighted the fact that the world is so full of jargon and full of talk but when you actually want to do something, the world isn't prepared for its pollution-free future and that was a real turning point.

We put global ads in the paper, followed the science, we put an ostrich with its head in the ground across all Dubai papers across all the UAE, all the world to say, here's a ship which is proven. You don't have to run on fossil fuel anymore. And if you don't respect the science, then you're no more than an ostrich with your head in the sand.

Samuel Jacobs: Jennifer, we've had a little bit of perspective from science, a little bit of perspective from business. I'm curious if you and I could talk about the intersection between people on the planet or in this case, the ocean? What threats do these environments face?

Jennifer Morris: A lot. Thank you for the question. So maybe I'll just pick up on one thing and I want to recognize Ray and sort of that the adage that you have given to the world is that we don't value what we can't measure. And I would add with Dr. Sylvia Earl's comment of we don't see what's under the ocean. If we actually could see what we're doing to the ocean we would actually measure it and value it in a much better way.

So one of the things that we're doing with many partners in this room is a real push to have a lot more onboard electronic monitoring on fishing vessels. We can do a tonne of protection and a lot of people in this room are doing that – 30% of oceans, we're all engaged in the high seas treaty and all these wonderful things. But if we trash the other 70% through improper fisheries practices, then that 30% is also going to be destroyed, and we know that we have to do a much better job when it comes to fisheries.

So, electronic monitoring is really important. Let me just give you a few statistics in the Pacific Ocean alone. Over a billion hooks are thrown every year in longline fisheries. Less than 5% of those ships have any form of independent onboard electronic monitoring, less than 5% and the amount of bycatch and many in this room know that this is such a big, big, big problem but we don't actually see it.

So, how do we get companies like Walmart who now signed up to say we want 100% electronic monitoring in our ships and all of our fisheries? How do we get countries to recognize this is good for them? Countries like Ghana, like the UK, who are now saying we must have eyes on the sea. This is happening but it's not happening fast enough. And we all see this in spades.

We see that if every time that the ship goes out. We know that there are going to be hundreds of 100 million sharks a year in bycatch. That is unacceptable. We only see it when it's coming, when we have cameras on the ships and when we have some form of actual monitoring but it's not enough.

And I think it's up to all of us in this room, everyone listening online to understand what we are doing to the oceans. It's absolutely critical that we have a lot more intelligence. We have the technology but we've got to have the will to do it. It's also about social issues.

The fishing industry is rife with slavery. There is so much, so many horrible things in terms of labour practices happening aboard these boats, electronic monitoring can help that – AI can help that and also the bycatch. But there's a lot of room for improvement there and we're really excited to be part of this movement and to make it go even faster.

Samuel Jacobs: Are there places where you're seeing success? Are there initiatives or locations that you're truly excited about today?

Jennifer Morris: Yes, so several, I mentioned some of the big companies signing up to this. I'll give an example of something in the Pacific that we're doing called Pacific Island tuna, which is working directly with the Republic of the Marshall Islands to basically repatriate profits from their tuna fleet.

So, they're getting very, very little money historically on tuna sales. And we came together with the public of Marshall Islands and created, kind of radical but we created a joint venture between the Nature Conservancy and government, a new company that now whose goal is to have 100% of the fish that are going there directly – the profits, the net profits will go back to the Republic of Marshall Islands and our first customer: Walmart.

So we delivered over 5 million – I think it's actually now 10 million cans of tuna under a special label that's MSC certified and has 100% electronic monitoring onboard and those profits are staying in the country for marine protection.

A lot of the money has to go into ensuring that there's dockside offloading and there's investments in communities and this is what the countries in the Pacific need. They need to see more of that revenue stay in their countries. All these countries are dealing with such harsh impacts of climate change.

And if we don't allow them to have more revenue from what is often their biggest source of natural capital revenue, which is the fishing fleet, then they're not going to be able to invest more in their future.

Samuel Jacobs: Dr. Obura, similar question for you, are there scientific discoveries or innovations today that you're most excited about?

David Obura: So, I think the ability to measure, I think just the technology of being able to do that, the computational power to deal with that data is just amazing. And I think that will really transform how we can really translate our knowledge of nature and measure what's real in nature.

You know, amount of fish or amount of coral and really quantify it in real units for what it is and then convert that into other indices. Sometimes it might be money and revenue. Sometimes it might be other indicators that tell us about the health of the ocean. So I think that's really important.

Remote sensing – our ability to measure things from space is taking off. I think terrestrial sciences and land management and conservation have been completely transformed by measurements from space.

The challenge on the ocean ticket for coral reefs, which is what I work on, is all the corals are underwater and you have to deal with that layer of water in between. So there's a range of challenges that we have to face in terms of measurements really addressing all of the questions we'd like to face in the ocean. But then, in water instrumentation, all sorts of technologies are developing now the use of sound, for example, in measuring the health of coral reefs, the variety of sounds you get from a coral reef are absolutely phenomenal.

I think that is really transforming and then, of course, the big challenge, the ocean is the largest part of the planet. And this issue of not having eyes on board or eyes in the water, is if we're going to really measure this last track and monitor this last open ocean resource that we have.

We really need to invest in these tools to be able to monitor what's happening then. So we can ensure that as we get the legislation and the practices for really managing it well, we'll be able to measure what's happening.

Samuel Jacobs: Dr. Forrest, a question for you. I think we've talked about how humans are largely a land-based species. And I think that means that what happens on the ocean is something that we rarely see. And I'm curious, from your perspective, you could help this room understand the role that the oceans play in the global economy and the relationship between how business functions today and just how essential the ocean is to that.

Andrew Forrest: OK, I'd have to say that the oceans right now, their major role is the garbage dump of humanity. And, as my friends on this stage have said, modern slavery is rife in the oceans. We have a foundation of which the largest modern slavery group is for free. We are measuring this and we'll get a much better idea of when we can monitor surveillance. These factory ships have forced labour on them and they never get to see the land for years.

So I just know that if the primary role for oceans, if we're going to be brutal about it is a garbage dump. Then we're destroying our oceans. And we've got to stop overfishing, which will include slavery because people move to slavery-like subsidized fuel because the fish are running out.

We must stop non-compostable, and, I repeat, non-compostable plastic is entering the oceans because that is causing massive damage. And of course, oceanic heat waves are way more severe in the marine environment than we've ever seen in the terrestrial environment.

So these issues are what's facing humanity not to destroy its biggest inheritance and that inheritance provides all the ships, all the shipping routes, we have a huge amount of protein to at least 1 billion people who absolutely rely on it and then the rest of us who would also suffer badly without it.

And that we don't have to do this. We can monitor fishing, we can do much more land-based fish farming without fish-based fishmeal. We can switch over to ammonia – green ammonia is fuel where the only output, the only pollution is nitrogen which that tree is relying on. These are all choices which we can now make.

Now look, in the years past, maybe even a decade past, those choices weren't there. And nor was the science that we're going to whistle through two degrees if we're not very, very careful. And the suffering which that will bring back on humanity will be immense. So, I see these huge problems – plastic, overfishing and global warming as all arrestable by the same guilty party, as is causing it. And that is us, humanity.

And so the first thing I'd like everyone participating here is to hold industrialists to account if you want to save these oceans, then please do it like this. Please say to every industrialist, when are you going to stop burning fossil fuel? When are you going to stop using non-compostable plastic for every food provider? Is your fish food and fishmeal completely monitored? If not, we'll stop buying it.

And of course, to fossil fuel producers. When are you going to stop forcing our hand to consume the only energy which you're giving us when you now have a choice? Renewable energy yet you're still sticking us to fossil fuel. If you want to save the oceans, get out there and do that. And then allow us to have children who wonder at the oceans like we are now.

Samuel Jacobs: Jennifer, what tactics are you seeing that are most effective in motivating people towards solving those problems?

Jennifer Morris: Well, you know, I think the era of volunteerism needs to end.

Samuel Jacobs: What does that mean?

Jennifer Morris: Meaning that we've got some good companies out there that are doing nice things but the scale of the problem is so immense, we have to see policy. We have to see better fisheries regulation. We have to see reform in the RMF zones. We have to – the High Seas treaty is fantastic, and don't get me wrong, a lot of people in this room worked decades to get that done, but now it has to be ratified and implemented.

So, the scale of problems is going to require policy and I just want to make another comment related to – let's face it, the elephant in the room – is how we price and value nature. And we are the subsidies situation, the fisheries and everyone whenever I say that we're like, oh, we can't do that, it's so hard. We have to be smart about evolving. The way that we, again, value the food coming from the oceans and we're doing it in a terrible way right now.

We need to be subsidizing regenerative practices, we need to be providing the right incentives for ships to do this in the right way. And we need to make sure that there are regulatory environments, not just from taxes and subsidies but they can enforce this and the countries that are suffering the most are the ones that don't have access to boats.

I mean, we go to a lot of these Pacific island nations and they're like, yeah, we would love to enforce that but we can't even get out there. So what are we doing as a global community to really prioritize some of the key issues related to our quite frankly terrible relationship that we have right now?

So, there has to be an end to just the bright spot. Those are great and those are lighthouse projects. We all love them but time is running out, especially when it comes to the ocean biome. So, we really need to encourage bolder action on behalf of all countries and, quite frankly, provide alternatives for communities that are seeing a decline in their coastal fisheries, often as a result of too much fishing happening farther away from shore.

Andrew Forrest: Can I just jump in here? Just to totally support you, Jennifer. Each of these massive problems, global warming, ship-based pollution, which is hideous, overfishing plastic, they're fixable. We know that about a measly $5, $6 a tonne as a carbon price will push the shipping industry to want to use green ammonia, not the most disgusting fuel there is which is bunker sea oil.

We know that a small premium on polymer will push plastic from being a waste to a commodity where you just wouldn't think about throwing it out because it's got a value and monitoring. Jennifer's point about transparency will fix global overfishing. So what we should be asking for is, we can set the oceans we've got these three weapons, we must demand industry pushes government to use them.

Samuel Jacobs: I'm going to stop the panel there on that point, you're going to come back and join me at the end of this conversation. Love to ask you to take your seats. Mr. Ray Dalio I'd like to invite you. Ray has many titles but his connection here is to OceanX and Ray I'd love for you to talk and tell this group why this vessel is in the Seychelles and what are you doing?

Ray Dalio: Okay, thank you very much. We're all partners in different ways and we all can bring different assets to bear. And then we have to actually accomplish a great deal. And so, we're going to take you into the world so that you're going to get exposed to OceanX's sub so that you can experience it.

So now, why the cycle, why did I get involved and what are we doing? When I grew up, Jacques Cousteau had a big effect on my life. And then I became a diver. And then I saw it and that awareness when circumstances changed and I had enough resources allowed me to be in a position where I could get an ocean exploration vehicle. And I could enable scientists such as those who you are going to meet here today to be on that ship.

And then James Cameron said to me, well, Jacques Cousteau brought to you the awareness and the love. Why don't you bring to the rest of the world the awareness and the love? And so I decided that I was going to make it not only an ocean exploration vehicle that's good for scientists but also to bring it back to people such as you're going to experience here today.

So what you're going to be seeing is OceanXplorer, which is this vessel that you'll just see a bit of but it has labs and it's a fantastic vehicle for ocean exploration that we work with scientists from oceanographic institutes and then we also create educational programmes, such as the Young Explorers programme so that young people can be on it.

And now with modern technology, children in schools can actually control the vehicles that you're going to see and it can take you anywhere. It has vehicles that will go down for 6,000 metres that will cover 98% of the ocean with cameras in front of them that have 3D 360-degree cameras. So the kids from here can, from their classrooms, can basically look through those lenses or it can be brought there.

Unfortunately, we're not going to give you the 3D 360 but we're going to take you into this world because I believe when we say, we need to do this, we need to do this and we need to do that. That becomes very theoretical unless you produce change and what is going to produce change but the love and the awareness.

On our earlier ship, about 40% of Blue Planet II was shot from that ship and that led to the UK government changing plastics laws and so on and having an effect. We also discovered the giant squid. Millions of people watched the discovery of the giant squid. So I believe that doing the science and then also being able to show it and excite people so that people care and then demand the things that we say we need to do is an important path.

So, I'm just going to turn it over to the folks on in the sub, I guess is where we're going.

Samuel Jacobs: Yes, Ray. Thank you. This is a moment that Ray and many of these people in this room have been working long and hard for we're actually gonna have a live connection with Mattie Rodrigue who's in the Seychelles on board an OceanX vessel. And she's going to lead us in a conversation and introduce us to Diva Amon who I earlier introduced as the science advisor to the Benioff Ocean Sciences Laboratory.

I should mention that Marc Benioff and Lynn Benioff who sponsor this laboratory are also co-owners and co-chairs of Time.

So Mattie, I look forward to connecting with you as I said, this is travelling 7,000 kilometres and then 300 metres below the sea. And so there may be some latency issues when we do see the images come in. I want you to see there'll be two points of light. You'll actually see the vessel underneath the ocean as well as one that's following it and filming it at the same time.

Mattie Rodrigue: Thank you, Ray. Thank you, Sam. Thank you to the entire panel. And hi Davos. We're so happy to be here in this beautiful Seychelles. My name is Mattie Rodrigue and I'm the science programme director at OceanX and we are currently onboard OceanXplorer at the Aldabra Atoll.

Aldabra is not only a world heritage site but also a marine protected area. It took us over 60 hours of steam to actually get here, travelling more than 1,200 kilometres. That's a long way. But we're really excited and it's really amazing to be here because so much amazing work has already been done in the ocean conservation space right here in the Seychelles.

While we're here, we are honoured to be working with local research partners, local spatial law scientists conducting a groundbreaking scientific mission. We are on this mission studying everything from shallow to deep sea habitats, looking at biodiversity of creatures large and small and also looking at all of the other key elements crucial for our understanding of this marine environment.

In a minute, we're going to be headed to Mission Control, which is really the central nervous system of OceanXplorer. That's where we pilot our remotely operated vehicles, we communicate with our submersibles and we also create 3D maps of the seafloor, often in unmapped areas for the first time in history.

It's also where we're going to be going live to one of our submersibles, which is currently more than 300 metres below the surface. We'll get to all of that in a minute. But first I wanted to introduce you to the OceanXplorer.

[Start of video]

Narrator: The ocean. Vast. Beautiful. Vital. All life on Earth, including our own, depends upon it. Yet, it's a place that we barely understand – a place of mystery and unanswered questions. And the deeper we venture, the more there is to be explored.

We believe it is vital that we understand as much as possible about the oceans from the shallowest reefs to the deepest trenches. OceanXplorer is the ultimate tool for that job, equipped with the latest technology, tools, submersibles, a helicopter, a remotely operated vehicle that can access 98% of the ocean floor, three onboard laboratories with real-time genetic sequencing capabilities and the top experts in their field to operate them all come together aboard this vessel.

The vessel serves as a platform for the scientific community, providing access to the most remote and challenging parts of the ocean and the tools to look deeper and closer than ever before. Through exploration and innovative storytelling, we can inspire the next generation of marine scientists and ocean lovers alike. Simply put, our mission is to explore the ocean and bring it back to the world. Welcome aboard.

[End of video]

Mattie Rodrigue: Welcome back to OceanXplorer, where we are currently standing in mission control. It's almost time to go live to our submersible. The ocean is the final frontier on our planet and human technology has advanced to the point where now we can explore every part of the ocean, even down to the deepest point. But as we continue to explore, we truly realize that there's no place on this planet that has actually escaped human impact.

Even right here in the Seychelles and Aldabra one of the most remote places on the planet. We're still seeing plastic pollution. And they're actually experiencing a massive coral bleaching event right here, right now. The more that we advance technology, the more critical it is that we use that technology responsibly.

To show a little bit of the tech that we're using here onboard OceanXplorer, we're going to turn it over live to one of our submersibles where Dr. Diva Amon is standing by. Diva is a marine biologist with the Benioff Ocean Science Lab at the University of California, Santa Barbara and a World Economic Forum Friend of Ocean Action.

Diva, can you hear us? What are you seeing?

Diva Amon: Hello, Mattie, I can hear you. Hello Sam, hello panellist, hello to everyone.

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Hello, Sam. Hello panellists, hello to everyone joining from around the world and Davos.

Mattie Rodrigue: So at the moment, as with every Zoom call, especially, I guess those that are about 300 metres below the surface, there's always connectivity issues. But right now, there are a lot of people on board working very hard not only to get that feedback up but also to make all of this happen including all of the work that we're doing subsea at the surface in this area. Take a look at how we pulled this amazing feat off.

[Start of video]

Diva Amon: Throughout history, humanity has endeavoured to communicate across vast expanses, from smoke signals and carrier pigeons to email and FaceTime. We've tirelessly pursued ways to connect. Advancements in technology have propelled us further, enabling communication beyond our planet.

We've beamed messages deep into the cosmos, communicating with distant spacecraft. And yet, the most challenging frontier of communication isn't space. It's right here in our oceans.

So Dave, why is wireless communications so challenging in the water?

Dave: It is so challenging because radio frequency does not work under the water. Water is so much more denser than air. As soon as you hit the water, no radio signal will penetrate that – what we've got to do is use acoustic communications, so sound that you've put in the water, much like how cetaceans, whales and dolphins we were taught.

Diva Amon: Does that mean that if I was in the water is able to hear what was being communicated between subs?

Dave: Yes, you barely hear something. Maybe not the actual comms but you're definitely able to hear something.

Diva Amon: OK.

Dave: Acoustics is great for voice communications but it has its limitations to get full blown data transmission and video transmission. You need to do it differently.

Diva Amon: The solution is light.

Dave: Here on the sub we have optical modem equipment, the LED array, this is the transmit function and this is the receive function so it just detects the light in the water that we convert the camera image and the comms to data and that transmit received through the water using light.

Diva Amon: And so once it gets into these, then how does it get to the ship?

Dave: So that's where the ROV comes in.

Diva Amon: So when the signal leaves the sub, ends up here, what happens?

Unidentified 1: We're above the sub and we've got the same arrangement on here, so we've got transmitter and receiver here, we're receiving and transmitting exactly the same as they are.

So the light from the sub is getting picked up on this one right? And the light pulses are then getting packeted and turned into data. So it comes all the way through our 66,000 metres of cable from the air down into mission control, up to the satellite and down to Davos.

Diva Amon: Which is like a 70,000-kilometre journey in a matter of seconds.

Unidentified 1: Yes. That's it, that's it. It's all about light.

[End of video]

Samuel Jacobs: It is no easy feat to create this kind of communication..

Mattie Rodrigue: As I mentioned...

Samuel Jacobs: Mattie, it's all you. We're going to get this right.

Mattie Rodrigue: Thank you, Sam. Sorry for the delay we're a bit far away. So, as I mentioned, this is no easy feat to pull off and Diva has been standing by, ready to let us know what she's seeing underwater.

Diva, are you there? Can you hear us?

Diva Amon: Hi Mattie, can you hear me? Great, OK, well hello Sam, hello panellists. Hello to everyone joining us from around the world and in Davos.

So, we are down here at 340 metres depth and we have snow as well. I imagine that the similarities of Davos end there, right? So, we are actually sitting in complete darkness. We're feeling 30 atmospheres of pressures, 30 times what you're feeling in Davos and we are sitting on this absolutely enormous wall.

And we decided to come down here to explore this wall because last night we generated these incredible maps of the south side of Aldabra for the first time and we just saw these incredible walls extended right from the shallow coral reefs all the way down to deep sea so we really wanted to come down and see what they look like in person.

And when we've gotten down here there are caves full of fish, there are layered just full of animals, it is absolutely incredible. And you know, even seasoned scientists like me, it is a nerve wracking but really exciting experience. And that's just because you have no idea what it is you're gonna see; the ocean is so unexplored and it's always changing. But it isn't all fun and games down here.

You know, the sharks, the snapper aside, we are actually doing science. And so spacial scientists and OceanX are collecting critical baseline data from around Aldabra that they're going to use to inform future conservation. And that means getting down here, getting eyes on the sea floor, collecting high-definition imagery, collecting environmental DNA, collecting samples and really allowing us to begin to know, begin to understand and begin to value incredible places like Aldabra.

But you know these technological breakthroughs, sure, we had a little jig early up but I am coming to you from 350 metres up. Those technological breakthroughs aren't just essential for science. They are also essential for communication.

So cast your mind back, 1969, Apollo 11 streamed live the lunar landing nearly 400,000 kilometres from Earth. Now fast forward 54 years later and here we are coming to you from about half a kilometre below the surface of the ocean. And really, this is one of the one of the few manned live broadcasts from the Deep Sea to ever take place.

And what we're hoping happens is that just like in the last century, space exploration really just pushed people to really enjoy and be enamoured with space. We're hoping that ocean exploration coming to you sharing this last frontier of our planet, the deep ocean, really is going to inspire a new generation to care about the ocean. Back to you guys in Davos

Samuel Jacobs: It is very exciting to be making some history with you. I've done a lot of interesting interviews but never one from 350 metres below the surface of the sea. As you've shown us how difficult this is, why should governments and business invest in this technology Diva?

Diva Amon: That's a really great question Sam. And I mean, of course there's, you know, encountering new species encountering new habitats, uncovering new behaviour and of course, I would find that thrilling but there has to be more, right? And innovation technology really is going to open up this vast, unknown part of our planet and get more people engaging with it than ever before in human history.

We're already seeing that happening. And that's exciting from a scientific perspective, that's exciting from a cultural perspective, that's exciting from an economic perspective and that innovation and technology are going to be absolutely critical to using the deep ocean in the future sustainably. And that's going to be critical and all that's going to happen because that innovation and technology is going to allow us to collect all the different puzzle pieces, wherever it is.

Maps of the sea floor or an idea of what lives where or an idea of how resilient animals are in the devotion to change. It's gonna allow us to get all of those puzzle pieces, put them together so that we can really begin to understand a good picture, a really high-resolution picture of what's actually down here. Just to give you an example of how this innovation and technology is really going to unlock the deep ocean for potentially governments and economies around the world to potentially allow them to benefit to the tune of billions in the future. Deep sea life is going to be the cornerstone of a sustainable deep ocean blue economy.

So when we think about it, there's brain genetic resources, animals down in the deep sea, they have evolved at very extreme conditions or at least extreme to us, whatever it is high pressures, low temperatures, darkness and that means that they could have some really interesting compounds within their body that we can ultimately benefit from for pharmaceuticals. nutraceuticals.

Hey, we could be getting new antibiotics from the deep sea in the future. Then there's biomimetics. That's innovation taking inspiration from deep-sea animals. There are currently new textiles that are being developed from taking inspiration from hagfish slime. Yes, hagfish slime. And then when you think about it, there's tourism.

There's the fact that you know if you text, if you FaceTime, if you Zoom, if you google cat videos, that is as a result of the submarine cables that criss-cross the seafloor already.

So really, we are looking at an entirely new potential economy or many potential new economies coming from the deep ocean in the future. There is no doubt about it. The deep sea and the hundreds of thousands of species that live here are potentially going to help us solve some of the greatest challenges to face humanity in the future. And that will only be possible with the help of innovation and technology.

Samuel Jacobs: Thank you Diva. I can't get over the fact that we've got four feet of snow out the window and we're talking to you under the sea. What exactly does the sustainable ocean economy look like to you Diva?

Diva Amon: That's a really great question. And there are a lot of key components that need to need to be put into place. So, for instance, a sustainable deep ocean blue economy has to have precaution.

There was so little that we know about the deep ocean right now that we need time to collect the science. And so it's another thing, the sustainable deep ocean blue economy should be grounded in science and that requires time. It should also have a lot of stakeholder engagement.

We heard from Jennifer, we heard from David, we've heard from others how important that is. And also there should be informed decision making, right? And what I will say is that all of those things are absolutely essential. And what a sustainable devotion blue economy does not look like is the unrestrained and rapid rush to mind the deep ocean in the absence of good governance, in the absence of good science, in the absence of stakeholder engagement. So really, we have a lot of work to do still before we can begin to really tap into this in a sustainable way.

Samuel Jacobs: Last question for you Diva, which I think ties into this whole conversation how do we use the ocean without using it up?

Diva Amon: Great question. I mean, as you've heard already, there is good reason for concern especially when we're talking about the deep sea. I think David touched on this earlier. The fact that the deep ocean is very slow, stable animals live for extremely great ages.

Just earlier today. Actually, right now I'm looking at a beautiful layer of these black coral. We know they can live for over 4,000 years. We know that there are sponges in the deep ocean that live for over 10,000 years. And animals that take that long or can live for that long and take that long to reproduce, do not recover from impact well or easily.

So, there's a lot that we have to think about to make sure that we don't use it up in the deep ocean because it is so susceptible to impact. But there are a lot of things that we can do to help minimize this with the help of technology, exploration science and that means take the time, gather that critical data, release it and then take that and share it with decision-makers on all of these ongoing governance processes that are deciding the fate of the ocean right now.

Whether it is the biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction negotiations. At the UN or the International Seabed Authority on mining, climate COP and so on. But technology and science will only get us so far when it comes to decision-making. Ultimately, there are a few more things we can do. So we need to ensure that more people know and understand the deep ocean, it's life and it's importance, Ray already alluded to this. The ocean is truly global and so all of humankind, not just a few, should be able to engage and really help to inform the decisions that are being made.

We also need to think really critically about how people, especially the most ocean-dependent people, are connected to the deep ocean and what that means for designing policy measures. And lastly, I think I'm not sure who said this on the panel, apologies but I think what really does need to improve is we need decision-makers who are willing to listen and have the will to create positive change because I think that's something that just we need to see a lot more in today's world.

And so, with the deep ocean, I think that a lot of that is coming to read and listen to experts to those who know and understand the risks that could potentially or the risks to the deep sea I should say and speaking of experts who know and understand the deep sea.

I'm gonna throw us back to Mattie. Mattie, can you hear me?

Mattie Rodrigue: Thank you so much, Diva. That was great, I really appreciated hearing your panel responses. And to the other panellists as well. I think we're hearing a theme here and it's one that's very strong in ocean science and policy in general, which is data-driven science based policymaking is a requirement for future ocean conservation measures.

In a lot of places, there are extreme data limitations and that's why I'm really excited to showcase another technology that we're developing and utilizing on board, which really allows us to get at that data limitation and to add more and more data about the biodiversity of the ocean at the molecular level. It's called environmental DNA or EDNA, and I'm really excited to show you how we use it onboard. Take a look.

[Start of video]

Narrator: The oceans are home to an infinitely complex web of life, from microscopic plankton drifting with the currents to enigmatic predators lurking in the abyss, even to the largest animals ever to exist on our planet.

Identifying that dizzying array of creatures may seem impossible but science has an ace up its sleeve. DNA. Environmental DNA is the genetic material that species leave behind as they move throughout the water.

Mattie Rodrigue: We can collect environmental DNA with water samples or out of sediments, pull the DNA out of it and basically ask the DNA sample a whole bunch of questions.

Using the cutting-edge technology onboard OceanXplorer, we're able to generate a report of all the species that exist in that sample; you start to get this really robust picture of the biodiversity of an area and you can just use water.

Unidentified 2: The main advantage of the EDNA and molecular ecology broaches speediness. You will get the full picture of the community within a week.

Narrator: OceanXplorer's capability to do this type of analysis is unique in the world. What once had to be done in advanced laboratories onshore can now be done in real-time at sea, collecting samples, taking them immediately to the lab, doing the immediate DNA extractions and then immediately putting them on the sequencer and seeing what we have.

Unidentified 3: OceanXplorer's capability to do this type of analysis is unique in the world.

What once had to be done in advanced laboratories onshore can now be done in real-time at sea, collecting samples, taking them immediately to the lab, doing the immediate DNA extractions and then immediately putting them on the sequencer and seeing what we have.

Narrator: And with a global presence, OceanX is uniquely positioned to make a global impact.

Unidentified 2: Ocean Explorer is moving around the oceans of the globe pretty much all the time. That allows us to paint a bigger picture of what life in the oceans looks like and help with the exploration of all the unseen stuff.

Unidentified 3: What's next? Action.

Mattie Rodrigue: We are really excited to start sharing and communicating some of the results that we're getting to the world. We learn new things and new information every day because of the ability to make discoveries in real time on board OceanXplorer.

[End of video]

Mattie Rodrigue: With all of the amazing work that we're doing here in the Seychelles, we hope that all of the data that we're collecting is going to be a game changer for local scientists, policymakers and decision-makers both regionally and globally.

While we're here, we are going to be collecting a lot of data and taking quite a few samples as well. And actually, I'm pretty sure Diva is about to take a sample from the sub right now.

Diva Amon: Thanks, Mattie, can you hear me?

OK, so, I'm about to take an environmental water sample from the sub. We're gonna take this back on deck after and analyze the environmental DNA with Seychellois scientists after and I just want to again emphasise before I do that how critical it is to get assets like this submersible ship, other deep ocean access into the hands, as David said earlier, of developing countries like the Seychelles where, for instance, the deep ocean is 96.5% of their exclusive economic zone and yet they do not have access.

And that's such a common story for small island developing states including my own Trinidad and Tobago. So take the sample, hope I don't break anything. OK. Bear with me. Okay, we are live.

Boom, there we go. A sample that we hopefully are going to then use to help us map the biodiversity of Aldabra and really contribute to future conservation here in the Seychelles. Thanks, Mattie, back to you.

Mattie Rodrigue: That was amazing. Thank you so much, Diva for collecting that sample that. Not everybody gets that on the first try, so much appreciated and well done.

I'm really excited to take that to the lab and extract DNA from it, especially as I see you're right next to a big coral colony. So all of the incredible technology that we've shown you here today for science and exploration contributes to the amazing scientific work that we do.

But we also have incredible camera technology here onboard that we've sent cameras down into deep crazy, very, very intense places to capture some of the most amazing animal and geophysical and oceanographic encounters on the planet.

That's really part of our mission at OceanX, which is to conduct the groundbreaking scientific research, tell the story of that research and discovery through captivating media and share that story with the world. As we say goodbye. We would love to share some of those stories with you. Farewell, Davos.

Samuel Jacobs: I mean, wow, what an experience that was and I think we all are now scientists. So I'm excited that happened together for us today. Diva, Mattie, thank you. Ray, thank you. I'd like to invite our panellists back up onto the stage. And I'd love to talk to you a little bit of what we just saw and your takeaways from what we've just witnessed. Please join me again.

All right, Jennifer, we'll start with you. You had the privilege of going last first. What did you make of what we just saw?

Jennifer Morris: So first of all, incredible. So everyone has supported that effort just and I know that you guys probably worked hundreds of hours on getting that right.

Samuel Jacobs: Showed up. A lot of other people work very hard.

Jennifer Morris: It's just amazing what we can do if we if we have eyes on the seas and things that we can learn and having that data is going to be so powerful. I will just say that I'm particularly excited about this because the Seychelles is a place that the Nature Conservancy has been working on for a long time with local partners.

We did the first nature bonds in the Seychelles in 2016, which unlocked, which reduced the debt of Seychelles, refinance their debt and actually unlocked money for conservation and in exchange, the Sechellen government agreed to protect its exclusive economic zone, an area that's the size of Germany.

So, this has huge impact and now we have a place that we don't know if it's directly related but there for the first time in many, many, many, many years, seeing blue whales come back to this area. So, it has real impact on what we can do at scale. We have the data, the will, the knowledge is really phenomenal. So that was terrific.

Samuel Jacobs: Thank you. Andrew. Did that inspire you?

Andrew Forrest: Yeah, no, look, I absolutely loved it. Ray and I absolutely know this subject really well. I published a thesis in my PhD which is called solutions for troubled ocean and we focused very highly on what we call oceanomics, which is DNA extraction and I think it is the way to really discover what's in the ocean without even having to film it.

You certainly don't have to touch it. You don't have to kill it. And I'd only say to other early adopters like Ray and I that I had to answer in my viva: OK, this technology gets out, how would you contain it and how will it not be used to exploit the oceans, how will not be used to extract species at even greater rate?

And so, I'd say, what I answered in my viva was that this is really important technology. It's really, really important work. The fishing industry wouldn't do this. But if they could get hold of the data, they could potentially abuse it. And so I'd say to any explorer like Ray who does this, let's set a set of rules for the host government that if any species on the IUCN red list is identified, then it's automatically protected as opposed to what we all face right now as conservationists – if a species starts to get fished towards extinction, we have to fight to protect it; it could take years.

It should be the fishing industry, which has to fight to unprotect it. So, I'd just say, this is a really great tech Ray. It's lovely to see you guys using it. I just am so excited by it. And now I think, maybe get hold of the lawyers to say let's make sure that the fishing industry respects this data.

Samuel Jacobs: David, how does this work or this kind of work fit within the larger scientific project?

David Obura: It's foundational and expanding that project, contributing to that project, filling huge gaps of data. I didn't know that ship was going to be out there but you know, that was I was really excited because I've been able to go there a couple of times, dive and look at the shallow coral reefs and have no idea what was down that wall beyond where we couldn't go and so seeing that was amazing.

We have huge gaps of data we didn't even know the diversity of shallow corals in that region. For example, in the northern Mozambique Channel, this is what we were doing about 10 years ago. Turns out it's the second peak of shallow water, marine biodiversity in the world after the Coral Triangle region. That was completely unknown before and so you know, we're going to fill in levels of knowledge beyond that with this.

I think what I like to do is to perhaps emphasize the importance of decision making, the importance of governance in technology is wonderful and knowledge is, we need knowledge. I'm a scientist, how we use that knowledge and how we use that technology is of course the most important thing I think in all of these processes and moving forward.

The one question I think is most important is are we moving towards greater equity and equality? Are we making sure that the right people are in the space, the Seychelles government in this case, has made wonderful decisions with that marine spatial planning and moving forward?

And they could do amazing things with this knowledge. And deepening about protection and wise use of the resources and of course, we need to extend that to all other ocean regions as well and that really invests in really making this knowledge fully open and accessible democratized and the decision making to use that very well wouldn't be wonderful.

That's the big project that we have now in this world to really sustain our world into the future. And I think it's fantastic to see this really setting a new boundary and being able to do that.

Samuel Jacobs: What a great note to end on. Ray and Mattie and Diva, if you're listening, thank you so much. To our panellists, everyone at the World Economic Forum made this technological feat possible and to bring the work that Ocean X is doing to you, Jennifer, Andrew, David, thank you so much.