Rebuilding trust after turmoil and coaching for results that matter: USA Gymnastics CEO

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I was the fourth CEO in a matter of about a year and a half. First and foremost, I met with every single member of the organization when I first started. I wanted to make sure that I was listening to them. There was a lot of institutional knowledge there that I didn't have. I also identified key individuals within the community, key influencers in the community, champions of the organization, champions of the sport, and I had individual conversations with them as well. And so, I basically went on this road show, a community road show of learning from the community, of talking with the people and understanding what really needed to be done.

Because, again, going back to this is not a one-person job. We needed almost an army of people to do what we needed to do. So getting buy-in from those quote unquote champions or ambassadors was critically important. We are out there talking, having a dialogue, and true dialogue, with our community to ask them how, how can we improve and how can we be better. We want to make sure when we roll something out that it is thoughtful and that is informed. And there's no other, in my mind, there's no other way to do that.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Welcome to Meet The Leader. I'm Linda Lacina and I'm very excited to welcome you once again to our New York studios here at the World Economic Forum for a very special conversation on leadership, this time on coaching.

What are the special ingredients that help build a culture, psychological safety, that really help us level up teams and individuals?

We have the perfect person to help us talk about this today: Li Li Leung. She is the president and CEO at USA Gymnastics. Now, that is an organization with more than 200,000 members. It is the governing body for gymnastics in the United States. And while it sets the rules that govern the sport, more critically – and what we care most about here at Meet The Leader – is that it helps develop the sport down to its grassroots levels, down to the mat. And it can help set the standard for what it means to be a gymnast, what it means to be a coach – lessons that we take right to heart at Meet The Leader.

Now, Li Li joined after a time of turmoil for the organization. There was a tragic abuse scandal in 2016 that had been in the headlines. There was a bankruptcy to help settle with survivors. And there were fourth CEOs in a year and a half.

Li Li is a former gymnast herself. And she's going to explain to us how she stayed focused during that time and also how she prioritized. She’ll also take us through what the organization has put in place to help build psychological safety, support and what's key for any leader to help build the culture that supports effective teams.

How are you?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I'm very well, Thank you for having me here.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Excited to have you and very excited for this conversation. It's something that is so difficult and so important for teams of basically any any stripe, any organization.

Let's talk a little bit about when you joined. We talked a little bit about sort of the challenges that were swirling within USA Gymnastics. A lot of people would not have joined an organization at such a challenging time. But you did. What drew you to that moment? What drew you to say, hey, you know what, here's something I can really dig in and solve?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Well, I was a gymnast. I did gymnastics for 15 years during the formative years, from the age of seven to the age of 22. And this, I saw this as an opportunity to be able to give back to the sport that had given me so much. It helped form me into the person I am today.

And when I had received the offer of this role, I actually, someone who I consider a mentor, should I take this opportunity or not? And and he said to me: You have to; you have the opportunity to be a part of what could potentially be one of the greatest turnarounds in sporting history. How can you not take that opportunity? And, and so I ran into the burning building.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And this was a moment where you take this role and people are saying things to you like congratulations, but also condolences.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yes.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: So how do you, how do you navigate that? What does it feel like? What does it feel like to kind of go in this, and we're excited about it, but there's also plenty to be anxious about, to want to get right. What does that feel like?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, it was an anxious moment, there's no question. Mixed emotions around that as well. Obviously, there was a lot of doubt swirling around whether I was the right person for this role because, as you mentioned, I was the fourth CEO in a matter of about a year and a half. But I would say, I would not have taken the role if I didn't think it was possible to turn it around, that there was an innate belief in me that, that it was possible to do this and to build an organization from one that was at the brink of extinction to one that could thrive.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And so any CEO, any leader has to prioritize and they have to really narrow down what those priorities are in order to make any kind of difference and advancement. How did you do that? How did you decide what are the two or three things that you were going to prioritize? And what were those things?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, so I would say, first and foremost, risk mitigation. The organization was facing a lot of risks or plugging those holes of exposure and liability. So, I went around in terms of finding stones that needed to be turned to, to plug those areas of risk.

And the other piece of it was really hiring the right people. I had said in my first interview with the board that this was not a one-person job, that it would take a village to do what we needed to accomplish. And so, getting the right people on board who believed in the mission, who believed in the purpose of what we were trying to do was critically important.

And the other piece of it was rebuilding the trust. Rebuilding trust of our athletes, of the staff members, of the overall community. Those were the three main priorities I'd focused on when I first came on board.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And when you talk about risk mitigation and sort of turning over all the different stones, what does that look like, right? Because I think it's an important thing when leaders start a new organization to make themselves known, but also to have open dialogue. How did you do that? How did you how did you talk with people?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: First and foremost, I met with every single member of the organization when I first started. I wanted to make sure that I was listening to them. There was a lot of institutional knowledge there that I didn't have, and they were more aware of things happening in the organization than I was at that point in time.

I also identified key individuals within the community, key influencers in the community, champions of the organization, champions of the sport, and I had individual conversations with them as well. And so, I basically went on this road show, a community road show of learning from the community, of talking with the people and understanding what really needed to be done.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And why is it so important to identify those champions and those influencers within the organization? I think it's a really interesting strategy. Why is that so helpful?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Because, again, going back to this is not a one-person job. We needed basically almost an army of people to do what we needed to do and to cultivate belief in the community that we were doing the right things and that our intent was good. So getting buy-in up front, getting buy-in with the individual staff members, getting buy-in from those quote unquote champions or ambassadors of our mission was critically important. And then making sure that they were feeling valued in terms of that they played a critical role in achieving what we were trying to achieve.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And how do you identify those folks who come into your organization? If you if you're looking at the one or two qualities that those people have. So, if I'm a leader listening to this, how do I identify the influencers, right? Not just the loudest voice in the room, but who are the influencers – how do you do that?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I relied on key staff members to do that. I asked key staff members to give me a list of five important people in, in the community. Didn't matter what role, could have been an athlete, could have been a coach, could have been a club owner, could have been a volunteer. And then I literally did a phone tree and called every single individual and had conversations with them, again to understand what was happening in the community, to get their perspective. Because we, we need to make informed decisions on behalf of the community. And in order for us to be informed, we have to have a dialogue with those people.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And if you hadn't done that, what would have been different?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I think we would have made a lot of mistakes. And it's not that we were perfect. There's no way that we could be perfect. And missteps did happen and missteps will continue to happen in the future. It's about learning from those missteps ASKING TO DELETE: that's, that's critically important.

But I think we would have made a lot more mistakes had we not listened to the community because they informed the policies that we wrote, they informed the processes that we put in place, they informed a lot of what we did.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Was there anything that surprised you about those conversations? Something that you weren't expecting or were like, oh gosh the volume on that was a little bit more than what I thought. What surprised you?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I would say the willingness from people to engage. I had thought with the outreach that maybe they would have been skeptical about my intent. When I went into the role, I read about how there was zero trust in the, in the community with the organizational leadership at that time.

But what I found out was that the community members really cared, very passionate about the sport, and that they wanted their voices heard. And they said this was actually the first time that leadership at this level had reached out to them and that they appreciated the opportunity to be able to voice their opinions.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And of course, none of this belies the fact that it's still really, really hard. Being a leader is a lonely thing. It’s a hard thing to come at a time of these challenges, as we just mentioned. Was there a time when you just, you just hit a wall? You got through it, but there was a moment where you were like, I don’t know how I’m going to move this forward? Tell me about that time.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, absolutely, there was a moment in time that that happened. I would say it was probably about six months into the role. And it was, I remember this distinctly, it was a weekend day, I was working out in the apartment complex’s gym that I was living in. And I was alone, completely by myself. And completely unexpectedly, I got hit with a wave of emotions and I uncontrollably just started crying. And I didn't know where it came from. And, and I realized that the physical toll, the mental toll, the emotional toll was really having an impact on me. And I realized then and there that I needed an outlet.

And if you think about my background, I did a sport a long time ago. And during that time when I did the sport, the culture was you didn't express your emotions, you didn't show weakness or vulnerability. And then I also grew up in a very traditional Asian household where also you didn't express your emotions. And so, it took a breaking point for me to realize it's, it's okay to express your emotions. It's okay to express vulnerability. And I've taken that lesson forward in terms of really finding outlets so I don't reach a breaking point anymore.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And what are those outlets for you?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Well, working out is one. It's, I'm used to being physically active, having been a gymnast for so long. And being physically active stimulates my mind as well. It's almost a form of meditation for me in a way. So that's definitely one.

Having some alone and downtime, as well, to decompress and to really think through things. That alone time is, is critically important for me because it clears your mind, it clears your heart, and it helps clear a pathway for, for, I think, more clarity in thinking.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And if I were a leader listening to this, you know, what is really important to sort of kind of tell when you need to be taking those moments? If you were going to give them a gut check, like, Hey, do this now. What are those moments where they should be like that, that they should know that they need to take those moments?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Well, and I think that I'm still working on that myself. For me, it's when frustration builds, it’s when I start to feel uneasiness, it's when I start to feel that it's just getting to be too much. It's when I start to feel a heaviness upon my shoulders. There isn't a tangible, concrete trigger for me. It's more so a gut check.

And like I said, I'm still learning about myself in terms of how I deal with situations. And so, this is a journey for me too.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader One of the things that USA Gymnastics put in place was a raft of mental health resources.

But before we get into that, I really want to talk about what it's like to be a gymnast. Because I don't know if everybody understands all of the things that these these young people are doing to train for the sport. Can you sort of take us through that? What is the typical day of a gymnast? So we have a sense of, like, all of the things that they're navigating.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, sure. I'll take you through what was a typical day for me as a competitive gymnast. Gymnastics is a very demanding sport, especially on young people – it tends to skew younger. And so, as a competitive gymnast myself, my family actually picked up and moved closer to the gym. And I have identical twin sister who also did the sport. So, the family picked up nad moved so my sister and I could train twice a day. We lived very close to the gym and literally could walk to the gym. Trained in the morning, went to school, then trained in the afternoon. Trained six days a week, 35 hours a week. Graduated with the minimum credits that the state of New Jersey allowed at that point in time. And it is it was like a full-time job at a very young age. So it's incredibly demanding sport.

And nowadays, many gymnasts are home schooled as well. So, it can be incredibly demanding. But I mean, the athletes that I talk with, they love what they're doing and they're willing to make those sacrifices for the sport.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Well, of course, and they may not necessarily always realize because they're very young, they may not realize maybe just the toll – there’s a physical toll, right, but the mental toll, what that looks like. What is that? What does it look like when they're managing both the pressure of the sport and training for the sport, the disappointments that naturally come as you learn and you grow with it and learn new techniques, but also the pressures of school and meeting those expectations?

Can you give us a sense of like all of the different mental things that they might be managing?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yes, it is, like I said, it takes a toll on the individual. And I would say a lot of gymnasts because they have not known anything different, they feel this is this is normal. This is how a normal childhood is. This is how you would grow up.

And gymnasts tend to be very high-achieving individuals amongst a group of already very high-achieving individuals. And so, they build a mental toughness. They build the skills of resilience. They build the skills of grit. And it's really about a focus, as well, in terms of focusing on the aspects in the gym, balancing the schoolwork as well, and then also being able to have a personal life at the same time.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: When USA Gymnastics put in these mental health resources, what is the problem, ultimately, that they want to sort of sidestep? What do they want to prevent happening with these gymnasts? What's the worst-case scenario that, okay, we don't want that for a gymnasts?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: We want to be developing our athletes in a holistic manner. When I came on board, we reset our mission as organization, which is to build a community and culture of health, safety and excellence, where athletes can thrive in sport and in life. The “in life” piece is critically important.

Normally, the career of a gymnast does not last that long. It is your life after the sport, which is a lot longer. And so, we want to make sure that we are setting our athletes for the best success in life beyond the sport, and that we are utilizing the sport of gymnastics to be able to provide them with the skills to become high-functioning individuals in society.

We are no longer about developing technically superior athletes who perform well in the field of play. We're about developing our athletes holistically, again, to set them up for success beyond the sport.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Why don't you take us through some of these resources that USA Gymnastics has put in place on the mental health end? What do those look like?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, we have put in quite a few resources on mental, emotional, physical health. On the physical side of things, we have ASKING TO DELETE about – and hope fully I can get these stats correct – about 60 medical providers and scores of volunteers. Just in the past year we had about 120 events and provided 4,000 medical sessions with our athletes.

On the mental side of things. We provide our national team, athletes and coaches the ability to have basically unlimited visits with mental health providers. We've had about 200 of those visits in the past year.

As you mentioned before, we are also a grassroots organization that we're responsible for over 200,000 members. And so, what I just mentioned were resources for our national team athletes. However, we are also providing resources for the masses within our community. We put out monthly webinars. We have regional national congresses that focus on mental health. We have courses about elevating your athletes. And so, we're really focused on being able to provide resources for our entire community.

And then one big hit on the emotional health side of things is we launched a therapy dog programme. If you Google “USA Gymnastics Beacon”, you will find Beacon, who is our official therapy dog. He's been to about 100 events. We launched it in 2023. He's been to about 100 events and has done many, many sessions with, with our athletes, with our coaches, with staffers, with judges, with the entire community. And we also bring on multiple other therapy dog teams to come to our events.

And the feedback from that has been absolutely tremendous and, and incredible. Not only are athletes saying this is the best programme ever that USA Gymnastics has launched, but we've noticed that coaches have really taken to therapy dog programme. Coaches who were stoic before, I have seen them smile for the first time when they bend down and they, and they pet a therapy dog. And our athletes are saying, well, you know, the therapy dog has reduced my coach's anxiety and stress level. And, in turn, the athletes’ stress levels further reduce because of that.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: What are these moments when maybe at trial or training? What are these moments where people reach out to Beacon? When is he most likely to get a little pat on his head?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: He is most likely to get a pat on his head, frankly, actually, many times throughout the competition period. He's normally there during practice and so the athletes between rotations will come and visit him and the other therapy dog teams. A lot of times after practice, that happens as well. And normally before competition, it happens, too.

And so, it's really nice to see the athletes just take a moment to decompress with the therapy dogs. A lot of athletes say they obviously can't bring their pets, their dogs to the competition. And so having the dogs there is almost like a security blanket from home for them to be able to pet therapy dogs.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And you talked a little bit about the coaches. All these resources like the therapy dog and also these other resources for sports psychologists and things like that. What is the tool kit that the coaches are also getting to help work with the athletes and sort of better help connect and engage with them? What are they learning?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So demands on coaches nowadays are far greater than they were before. As I mentioned before, coaches used to just be about the technical aspect of the sport. Now there's an expectation of them to not only be a great technical coach, but to be a mentor, to be a role model, to be able to develop the athletes holistically.

So, we're arming coaches with education, such as how to understand development of an individual. For example, a young child doesn't understand sarcasm, sarcasm. And so how do you speak to your athletes for them to best respond? We provide our coaches with education materials in terms of how to communicate with parents. The coach-parent relationship is very difficult at moments. And then we provide these other resources around again, how to elevate the athlete from a holistic level too.

So, a lot of resources around developing coaches. And our strategy was to develop coaches from both the top-down and the bottom-up. And our hope was that then the middle would meet somewhere. So, we're getting young coaches coming in right from the beginning and molding them from the ground up. And then we also provide coaches for our very visible, more senior coaches at the national team level, in terms of mindfulness exercises.

And and so our hope is that then, the top-down, bottom-up strategy, that the middle would meet at some point.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: So with, with all that, if you have, you were mentioning that they may be talking to, maybe a young child, maybe talking to a teenager or talking to a parent, what's important for any leader who is listening to this and they're having to, everyone is different, everyone responds to cues and triggers and commands and whatever needs is different. What can they sort of maybe is helpful for them to learn from what you guys are putting into place in USA Gymnastics on how to be a bit of a chameleon? What's, what's helpful that any leader can learn from this?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, we always say this is not black and white. You will not be able to apply the same cookie-cutter approach to every situation. We recommend engaging in dialogue to really understand the perspective, to be empathetic in those conversations, to try and put yourself in that person's shoes, to understand where they're coming from.

It is difficult. There's no question about that. Coaches historically aren't used to having to engage in conversations like that. But really, opening the dialogue is critically, critically important.

And we also provide resources to club owners. So, the coaches sometimes are employed by club owners, and sometimes the club owners can mediate those conversations between the parents and the coach as well. And so, it's really this holistic approach in terms of we are hitting all different facets and stakeholders of our community to make sure everyone is having a certain level of education around the communication piece.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: That’s interesting. And we talked a little bit about the tool kit that has been put in place for the coaches. But what about that little inner toolkit also for the athletes? What are those things that they're strengthening, those other muscles that they’re strengthening? What does it look like?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: We're really focused on giving our athletes a platform to have their voices heard. Again, historically, this organization didn't encourage athletes to voice their opinions. Now we're all about hearing athlete voices.

We provide multiple feedback loops for athletes because, again, we're making decisions that will affect them. We want to make sure we're making the best decisions on their behalf. And so, we do anonymous surveys multiple times a year. We have meetings with the athletes as well.

We are providing them with resources to be able to speak up and speak out. We created an Athlete Bill of Rights to allow them to feel comfortable to speak up and speak out. And it's really, we're working on this infrastructure, an entire infrastructure for them to be able to feel okay and feel good and feel comfortable to have that safe space to provide their opinions and feedback.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader; And with that Athletes Bill of Rights, tell me how it was developed, you know. Why was that process was so important?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: We thought it was incredibly important to be able to show our athletes that we really meant what we were talking about. We had to walk the talk. And so we felt it was important to create a policy around a code of conduct that, that not only so our athletes would feel comfortable, but then to also send a message to the community – coaches, club owners, other folks in the community – that the athlete voice was critically important and if they spoke up that that was going to be supported by the organization.

And we put policies in place to allow them to do that. We put retaliation policies in place that if an athlete did speak up and if someone retaliated against them, we would hold that person accountable. And so, it's really important that we felt that there was this entire infrastructure to be able to support our athletes to feel safe.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And how, what are the before and after that you've seen from when you joined to now that you've got these, these toolkits in place, these programmes – what's the before and after?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: From an athlete perspective, I would say that we are hearing from athletes more than we ever have been. And more athletes are becoming more and more engaged with our organization as well. We have athletes sitting on -- multiple athletes -- sitting on our board of directors, athletes sitting on multiple committees all around our organization. We have athletes providing us input on the decision-making. And so they are voicing their opinions more than ever has been.

And the other thing I would say is that there's also this outward change in their behaviour. We feel and we see a lightness at the competitions that we haven't seen before. We see genuine enjoyment, authentic smiles at the competitions – that they're really, truly having fun. And that has been so rewarding.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: I think all leaders want to make sure that there's open channels of communication, so people feel like they can they can speak up. But there's always blind spots, right?

If I'm a leader listening to this, are there little tells that maybe people don't feel that they can speak up or that they won't be listened to or that might be dismissed. What are those tells they could look for?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: We actually ask our athletes if they feel comfortable speaking up. And so, we have seen that number rise over time. And so, we are at nearly 90% of athletes feeling good about speaking up, that they feel that it's a safe place.

Of course, there will be some who may never feel comfortable about speaking up. And so that's why we do a lot of anonymous surveys. We don't care who is answering it, in the sense of we're not going to figure out the individual and then go after them on things. We just want to make sure that they're providing us honest and open feedback on things.

And so, we just try and make sure that we're getting them at all different touch points for them to be able provide honest feedback.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And what is next for this programme? Are there other resources that you’re putting into place or developing further? What's next?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, we're going to continue to build on what we've already done. One potential strategic initiative that we're looking at is building a centralized training and a wellness centre.

All of our competitive disciplines train in different locations around the US. There are not many efficiencies that are being realized that way. And so, we are looking at the feasibility of building a training and wellness centre. And wellness is critically important in the name. You will never hear us call it just a training center. Wellness is a critical and important characteristic in terms of what we plan to do with this facility is that it will be a hub for wellness for our athletes and the entire community.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Our vision is that we're hoping that this will be the heart and hub of gymnastics in America, that it will be a gathering place for our community of all different levels. This is not just for national team training. This is for all levels of gymnastics, where young athletes can come and watch their role models train and dream to be the best gymnasts they can be.

We will hold educational clinics there for our community. We plan to hold open grassroots camps as well. We plan to have multiple clinics around mental health, emotional health, nutritional health as well. And that it will be a place of wellbeing for the entire community to gather around.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: A leader who is listening to this and these sort of scaffolding, this infrastructure is being put in place for the inner toolkit. What is maybe something they can be thinking about for their own teams? If they were going to be asking themselves questions about what they could put into place or things they could consider, what would you suggest to them?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I would say, so first, assess the need. What, what core problem statement are you trying to solve and identify that first. And then I would say get input from your stakeholders that you're building that programme or resource for. Listen to them in terms of what they need. That is how we have identified the resources that we put in place. We asked our athletes, we asked our coaches, and they directed us in terms of the resources that we put in place.

After that, I would say, don't try and recreate the wheel here. There are likely resources in place that have been built where you only maybe need to tweak a little bit to make relevant to what you're trying to do. And I would say you're not alone in this in the sense that there are other organizations who have done what you're trying to do. Learn from them, lean in, glean input for them from them, and that will make building those resources that much easier.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: There's a famous moment that happened at the Tokyo Games with Simone Biles and I can have you speak more about it but she withdrew from the women's final. And it got a lot of attention for a lot of things, including the fact that she felt comfortable saying, you know what? I can't compete today. Can you tell us a little bit about that moment and why it’s so important.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yes, so Simone did withdraw from the competition after her first event, which was vault. And she got a case of the twisties, which is so much the yips in golf. So, when you get the twisties, you, you get lost in the air when you're flipping and twisting. And it is incredibly dangerous because then you cannot land. She could have she could have landed on her head. She could injured herself seriously. So, she rightfully made the decision to pull out of competition because her health and safety was a priority.

The priority was not winning a medal, it was not getting on podium. It was the health and safety of Simone at that point in time. We supported her decision 100% to pull out because, again, the wellbeing of the athletes, we've said it, that it's our priority and we really believe that.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And did this moment help shape some of the resources that were later put in place, right so that happened in 2020? Some of this other stuff has happened sort of as we've gone on. How did that impact some of the other resources that were put in place for mental health?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah, there's no question that Simone withdrawing from the Olympics shined a light on the need for mental health resources for our athletes and for the global community as well. And she has been a role model for self-advocacy. She was a role model then, she continues to be a role model today.

And so, our athletes now feel more comfortable about speaking out about mental health. And, as I mentioned before, we survey our athletes. And their responses, those are what dictate the resources that we put in place. We ask them specifically what they're looking for and then we cobble the resources to get those done.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And when we talk about self-advocacy. How can anyone be a better self-advocate for their own work, for their own mental health, for their own heart. What would you recommend?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Admittedly, this is something that I'm working on as well. Self-advocacy is difficult for me as an individual because I, I almost feel that it's tooting your horn too much in a way, and it can come across as being arrogant at times. When I grew up in a household where being humble was a characteristic that was sought after and placed importance on.

And so, I'm still on the self-advocacy journey. And what I've told myself, though, is that it's okay to speak the truth. It's okay to be authentic to yourself. It's okay to talk about the accomplishments because, again, those are factual. And don't feel that you are being arrogant and don't feel that you're tooting your horn too much because it's critical to not only your individual success, but sometimes self-advocacy is good for the greater good and good for the organization as well.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Is there maybe also a question where someone can ask, Hey, what's the worst thing that happens if I, if I, if I speak up, right? Because in this case, the worst thing that could happen if she didn't speak up was she could be horribly injured. But is this question of like, hey, you know what, what's, what's, what's the outcome? What's my output? What's the best, what's the worst thing that happens right now? Understand what you're afraid of. How important is that?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I think it's important to not be afraid. And I know it's so much easier said than done. I think everyone feels fear in multiple different situations. But knowing that if you speak up, if you speak out, good can come from that. If you don't speak up and if you don't speak out, then things won't change. And so, you have to be okay and overcome that fear because what you're doing is a good thing and it will enable positive change.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: A lot of leaders talk about psychological safety and how important it is, and we certainly talked a little bit about that. But what are the ingredients that need to be in place?

I feel like it's elusive and it's a moving target. No one will ever have it perfect. But in your mind, if we were going to sort of have the ingredients for this on a list, what would it look like?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: It would look like a whole smattering and a portfolio and a library of resources. So it means, from our standpoint, it means making sure that the organization has a priority that safety is important. So that starts from the top. And then you have to build the policies that align with the priority of psychological safety. And then you need to build the processes in place that align with that as well. And then you need to have the resources in place to back that up too.

So, it is this entire infrastructure that is interwoven through our entire ecosystem of our community. And sending the message that psychological safety is important. We hold people accountable if they are misbehaving, if they are not acting in a way and providing an environment where psychological safety is not happening. And so, it is this entire holistic approach to the holistic development of our athletes.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You mentioned accountability, but there was also earlier say, hey, you know what, you know, speak up because good things can happen.

How important is that next bit – the organization taking something forward into building and reinforcing that sense of trust. How important is action from the organization?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: It is critically important. And at the beginning we specifically shied away from talking about our actions. We wanted our actions to, to speak for itself rather than us speaking about it. So, in our minds, action is, is critically important.

We will continue to build on what we've done. We will continue to make safety a priority. And we, we have a philosophy at our organization where we model ourselves after our athletes. Our athletes, they they don't learn a skill and they're like, okay, good, I'm done. I don't need to improve anymore. They are continually, continually challenging themselves to be a better athlete, to be a better person.

And that's what we do as well. We know, while we've been, we're proud in terms of what we've done to date. We know this is not the end and we have to continue to challenge ourselves to reevaluate what we're doing, to improve on what we're doing because we know we'll never be done.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And what’s something that a leader can do to continually be sort of going to be 1 or 5% better yet at this is the safety bit, at the effective communication channels this. What can they be doing to make sure that they're constantly improving?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: We constantly ask ourselves questions. So when a policy gets written, we don't write it and then shove it in a drawer and it just sits there. We actually go back, whether it's six months later or whether it's a year later, and reevaluate it. And we tweak it to make sure that we're actually implementing changes where we, we learned from the past six months or year.

So, we do that from a policy standpoint. We do that from a process standpoint. And we are continually asking those who are impacted by the programmes that we are putting in place. We don't sit in ivory tower. We are out there talking, having a dialogue, and true dialogue, with our community to ask them how, how can we improve and how can we be better with these things?

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And if you didn't do that, what would be different?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I shudder to think how we would be different actually, to be to be completely honest. Because sitting in an office making decisions that will affect hundreds of thousands of people without being informed, I can't think of a better recipe for disaster, to be totally honest.

These programmes and these policies and procedures that we are putting in place affects the daily lives of our community. So, we want to make sure when we roll something out that it is thoughtful and that is informed. And there's no other, in my mind, there's no other way to do that.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You talked about having this sort of portfolio of things in place to make sure that people felt safe and there's a real culture here. How does that build excellence?

We have all these things in place. And yes, there's a holistic aspect to them. But, you know, USA Gymnastics is building, as we said, down on the mat, a holistic idea of what actually it means to be an athlete, someone who's pursuing all this. How does the, how do these resources, where there's a free flow of communication, where people feel like they can speak up for themselves? How does that lead to holistic excellence?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: And I like that you said holistic excellence. Because, again, it's not about getting on the podium. Holistic excellence in my mind means being happy and enjoying your time in the gym. As I mentioned before, some of our athletes are doing gymnastics as if it's a full-time job. And so we want them to be enjoying all of that time in the gym.

Holistic excellence also looks like coming out of the sport and then being successful in life beyond the sport. So, I was very lucky, I had a fantastic coach. He was very focused on holistic excellence. I think he was before his time in a way. And he told me this story one time where one other competitive coach said to him: You know, I can't, I can't believe that you're thinking of retiring because you haven't trained an Olympic champion. And he said: I have trained and developed incredible mothers, successful businesspeople, women who have turned into all-around amazing individuals. And that's his measure of success. It's not about winning a medal.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Yeah, you, you were a gymnast yourself, can you tell us a little bit about that? You explained a little bit about your routine when you would be training. But how did it sort of prepare you for a life of leadership?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So, as I mentioned, gymnastics is a very demanding sport. And so, you don't become successful as a gymnast unless you're learning the skills of persistence, of resilience, of discipline, hard work, work ethic. And gymnastics taught me all of those skills that I apply both in my personal and professional daily life. And, and that's our hope as well, is that we are passing it forward in terms of how do we help our athletes utilize the sport to develop these skills that they can then apply later on in life.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Are there things that you do as a leader that would just not have occurred to you if you didn't have the background that you did?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I think, so gymnastics is literally a judged sport. You're out there, you're performing, and the judges are watching your every move and deducting mistakes as they happen. And so, I do believe gymnastics truly teaches you the art of how to accept constructive feedback, how to accept criticism, which I think is critically important as leader as well, that you have to be open to feedback and suggestions of others.

And so, I do believe that gymnastics is a little bit of a special sport in that sense, in terms of you're taught at a very young age in terms of how to accept criticism and feedback. And I think that's a critical characteristic in a leader is to be open to suggestions.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: I always enjoy talking to people who have been athletes because I do feel like the way that they talk about feedback is very healthy and very constructive. And I think it's, they do have a unique perspective on it.

As someone who was an athlete, someone who was training competitively. When you hear feedback, what's going through your mind? What, what do you, how are you processing it? How do you factor it in?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So, I think, first and foremost, people don't like to hear criticism about themselves. I think that's, that's a fact of nature. And I think first, take a step back, take a deep breath and don't immediately react, immediately react or pass judgment on that feedback.

I think the other piece of it is look at it through the lens of, it's not personal, it's not meant to be personal on your own, but it's actually meant to be feedback that would help the purpose of the organization or help the wider community and help beyond just you as an individual. And I think that that's a critical lens to receive feedback through, because then I think you can take a step back and look at it much more objectively than reacting to it on a personal basis.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: One of the things from our Future Jobs Report 2025 that was just released a few weeks back was it was really talking about the soft skills and the need for leaders to be coaching up teams, given a host of changes that can be happening simultaneously – technological, demographic and geopolitical, all these. And so, if people are able to be empowered and make decisions throughout the organization, then we're better able to sort of be agile and make decisions with it.

In your mind. If I am a leader, how can I help be a better coach to my team. Make sure that they feel empowered and they feel like they can sort of make those decisions?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yeah. I think listening, again. Listen to what your team is saying to you. Take their feedback to heart. They are likely seeing things that you're not seeing as leader. I think valuing your staff as well.

One of them, in my first meeting on the first day that I started at USA Gymnastics, I had called an all-staff meeting and I told them this story, and I cannot remember where I came across the story, but I read an article where someone, maybe it was a journalist or someone's walking through NASA and that person came across a janitor and the janitor was sweeping the floor. And that person asked the janitor: What are you doing? And the janitor responded, I'm helping put a man on the moon. And I think it's critically important for leaders to show that every single individual in the organization is a valued member of contributing to the organization's objective. It doesn't matter what your role is, it doesn't matter how menial that task may seem, but they are a critical component of delivering success in the organization.

I think the other piece of it is gaining perspective, putting yourself in that person's shoes. Being empathetic about perhaps the situation that they're facing. And then being flexible, being able to pivot. I think this is critical as well. The environment around you is constantly changing and some of the best laid plans might not be relevant in a few months’ time. And so, while you might have a roadmap in place, I think you need to be understanding that you might have to pivot from that roadmap.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Now, you come from a different world. We, a lot of people who listen to Meet The Leader, maybe they work in technology, maybe they work in manufacturing, maybe they work in a million different industries, right? But what I think is really interesting is that, for maybe decades and decades, there had been sort of a top-down approach to leadership, where somebody has the plan and they tell everybody the plan and then they do the plan, right? And we are very, very much moving to distributed forms of empowered leadership, where more people need to be able to make making decisions. In other words, coaching becomes more important than ever.

In your mind, is there is there one sort of, if I if I were leader and there was one thing, right, one blind spot that I should keep in mind, what is that to make sure that I'm actually doing that coaching work?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yes, so you're exactly right, traditional leadership is no longer, I believe, to be the right way of leadership. It's about coaching everyone within your organization. And I think it I think it goes back to what I said before about valuing everyone in the organization. Everyone wants to feel valued.

And what I have noticed is that when someone feels valued, they tend to be more productive. They buy into what the organization is doing. They buy into the mission and purpose. They buy into working harder and being more productive.

And so, and value can come in many different ways. It's not just about the monetary, compensatory gains. It's about recognition. It's about just telling someone they've done a good job. It can come in so many different ways. But I think valuing your staff is, is critically important.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: You mentioned that quote from your coach. Was there a moment also that was shaping to, where your coach, maybe when you were training for gymnastics, sort of really helped you kind of break through a wall or something like that?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Yes, I can think of a moment where I was learning a skill on the uneven bars and he was asking to make a technique change in, in my skill. And he explained the why of it. I think a lot of coaches sometimes will say, hey, just, just do this. Just tap your legs more and, you know, it'll make things better. But, but he explained, if I did that, why he was asking me to do that and if I did that, what the results of that would be.

And so, there was an explanation in terms of the rationale of making that ask. And it clicked for me. And so, I actually apply that in my daily life in terms of, when we make a decision in the organization, we try and explain the rationale and the why behind that decision. A lot of times people won't agree or they don't like the decision that's being made, but then when they understand “the why” behind it, they become more accepting of it.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: How else, how, what other ways can leaders help people understand the why?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So, when, in terms of understanding the why. We try and be as transparent as possible. Transparency is actually one of our core values as an organization. And transparency means communicating.

And what we do is we try and walk our community through “the why” behind the decision. We can explain sometimes that there are external circumstances as to why this decision was made. We can explain that there are going to be things happening coming down the pipeline within the community that drove our decision on things. And so, it's explaining the step-by-step process, in terms of how we reached that decision, to show the why behind it.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Is there a piece of advice that you've always been grateful for?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So, when I took this job, there was someone who I consider a mentor said to me: Don't try and boil the ocean. My immediate response back to him was: But I'm going to try and boil as much of it as I can.

And, but the advice was to prioritize and to simplify. And that has been a critical lens in terms of how I approach this role because we have finite resources to do what we do. And so prioritizing and focusing have been crucial to our success today, and it will be crucial to our success going forward.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: We have only a little bit of time left with you, Li Li And I have a little bit rapid response. So what we're going to do is I'm going to say something to you and you're going to sort of finish my sentence, right? So a quick, quick take thing here. Are you ready?

What is the first thing you do every morning?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: I actually try and work out every morning, whether it's a stretch or a walk. But moving my body stimulates my mind.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Last thing you do at night?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Is to give gratitude. So, I am so thankful for the experiences and opportunities I've had to date, and I never want to take those for granted. It helps keep me grounded.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: How do you give gratitude?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Well, sometimes, if I'm not traveling and I'm with my husband, then we actually talk about how lucky we are in terms of, from family and friends. And so we discuss that.

If I'm alone in my hotel room, you know, I silently talk to myself in terms of how grateful I am for all the opportunities that have been given to me.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Song that motivates you?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: “This is me” from The Greatest Showman.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: A mantra or a slogan that you swear by?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: To expand my comfort zone. So, I always try and expand my comfort zone, whether it's physically taking myself out of my comfort zone or mentally doing it. Because my belief is, the wider you expand your comfort zone, then any situation that’s thrown at you, you can adapt to it.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: The best thing that you have stopped doing?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Doing things in excess. So, you know, sometimes I would work out excess, sometimes I would eat in excess. And age has changed that a little bit. So, I try and do things in moderation now.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Biggest meeting pet peeve?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: When someone makes in an issue about themselves and they're not focused on the organizational goal at hand.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: The habit that you can't work without?

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Discipline. Discipline and being focused.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: And the biggest challenge that you see for 2025.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: So I see several. But I would say from a macro standpoint, probably trying not to get whiplash in terms of the speed, the rapidity of how decisions are being made on a global basis and trying not to immediately react to all of those decisions.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Well, that's all the time that we have. And thank you very much for making time for us, we really appreciate it.

Li Li Leung, USA Gymnastics: Thank you so much for having me.

Linda Lacina, Meet The Leader: Very good. And for more video podcasts, please go to the World Economic Forum's YouTube page. And for more podcasts and transcripts, go to wef.ch/podcasts.